Episode 104
Reflections on Recent United Methodist General Conference with Bishop Trimble
Bishop Julius C. Trimble is the Resident Bishop of the Indiana Area of the United Methodist Church.
Bishop Trimble has the personal mission to encourage all people with the love of Jesus Christ to rise to their highest potential. It is his commitment to his personal mission that led Bishop Trimble to create the “To Be Encouraged” Podcast along with co-host Rev.Dr. Brad Miller.
Bishop Trimble says, “I am compelled by Jesus to share with you an encouraging word or two about Jesus, theology, the Bible, the pandemic, the environment, racism, voting rights, human sexuality, and the state of the United Methodist Church.”
To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble is to be published weekly and is available at www.tobeencouraged.com and all the podcast directories.
https://www.inumc.org/bishop/office-of-the-bishop/
EP: 104 "United Methodist Church Progress: A Brighter Future Ahead"
Introduction:
In this episode of "To Be Encouraged," Bishop Julius C. Trimble shares insights with Rev. Dr. Brad Miller on the recent United Methodist General Conference. The conversation goes into crucial decisions, reflections on the church's historical challenges, and hopes for a more inclusive and adaptive future.
Key Takeaways:
1. Embracing Inclusivity:
One major highlight of the General Conference was the removal of discriminatory language from the United Methodist Church's Book of Discipline. By updating its policies, the church takes a significant step towards welcoming all individuals, including the LGBTQ community, into the ministry without discrimination. This decision reflects a shift towards a more inclusive and compassionate approach, emphasizing the importance of equal access to church services for all parishioners.
2. Regionalization and Adaptation:
The episode emphasizes the need for the United Methodist Church to adapt and evolve in a rapidly changing world. Discussions at the conference highlighted the concept of regionalization, acknowledging the diverse cultural contexts in which the church operates. With changes in the church's constitution and organization pending approval, the focus is on creating a nimble and contextually relevant structure that can better serve the global community of believers.
3. Social Principles Revision and Advocacy:
Bishop Trimble and Rev. Dr. Miller discuss the church's commitment to social principles that reflect its core beliefs and mission. By revising these principles to address global issues such as environmental stewardship, racism, and access to basic necessities, the United Methodist Church reaffirms its dedication to advocating for justice and compassion worldwide. This emphasis on caring for creation and promoting equitable policies underscores the church's role in fostering positive change within society.
Conclusion:
The episode closes with a message of hope and grace, encapsulating the spirit of encouragement that defines the podcast. As Bishop Trimble shares a poignant quote and offers a prayer for guidance, listeners are reminded of the transformative power of unity, inclusivity, and social responsibility. The United Methodist Church's journey towards a more welcoming and adaptive future serves as a beacon of inspiration for all those seeking to create a brighter, more compassionate world.
This is the first of several episodes of To Be Encouraged regarding General Conference.
Transcript
Hello again, good people. Welcome to To Be Encouraged
Speaker:with Bishop Julius C Trimble. Bishop Trumbull is on a mission
Speaker:to help people to have encouragement in their life, and we do
Speaker:that here by helping people to deal with the discouraging aspects
Speaker:of the world in an encouraging manner. One of the things that's
Speaker:had ups and ups and downs about discouragement and a little bit of encouragement
Speaker:over the last many years at United Methodist Church is how do we
Speaker:handle general conference? And something happened not too
Speaker:long ago is we actually had a general conference after many years of
Speaker:not. And so that caused some resolution to take place in many
Speaker:areas that were kinda some, things that were left undone that needed to
Speaker:be done. So, Bishop, I wanna welcome you to your own podcast,
Speaker:and let's talk about general conference 2024, which is really
Speaker:general conference 2020. But welcome, my friend. Thank you,
Speaker:Brad. It's so good to finally get a chance to talk about
Speaker:this postponed that was postponed that was postponed general
Speaker:conference, the quadrennial meeting of United Methodists
Speaker:across the globe, which usually results in great
Speaker:worship, a great gathering of people
Speaker:from various cultures. It's almost like a United Nations
Speaker:of United Methodism that comes together. So it was a great
Speaker:gathering in Charlotte, North Carolina. A wonderful,
Speaker:downtown convention center. So to God be the glory, and
Speaker:I'm looking forward to some conversation about it. Well, let's just start
Speaker:with your kind of an overview of the conference. You know, there was a lot
Speaker:of angst about this annual about this general conference,
Speaker:about the decisions that were before us and things of that nature,
Speaker:and some of it was based on pastoral conferences. But there was some
Speaker:unhappy people and some some really kind of you know, really
Speaker:unfortunate things happened. Let's get over before we get
Speaker:into some of the nitty gritty of some of the details we do wanna talk
Speaker:about, give us an overview about the spirit of general conference, about
Speaker:the sense, the vibe there. Give us a little sense of what you experienced
Speaker:there in that nature. Well, it it was a wonderful sense of
Speaker:of, I think, worshipful anticipation. We we
Speaker:started with worship as we off as we always do, but there was a
Speaker:sense of, I think, a sense of excitement around
Speaker:the possibility of becoming a post conflict
Speaker:United Methodist movement, and I think that's where
Speaker:we left from the conference. Brett, it's the first conference I've been
Speaker:to. I've been going to general conferences since the year 2000.
Speaker:Now keep in mind, these are meetings that take place every 4 years
Speaker:unless there's a special call one, and there was one in 2019.
Speaker:And probably about half the people who came to this conference in
Speaker:Charlotte probably had been at the one in Saint Louis
Speaker:in 2019. So I'm sure those folks came wondering
Speaker:if there was going to be great confusion or great
Speaker:fights or or protests on the floor and so forth. It was the
Speaker:1st general conference I've been to where there was no
Speaker:protest is in the middle of the
Speaker:actual conference itself during the plenary session. There was some
Speaker:silent protests outside and in the hallways around
Speaker:palace the the plight of Palestinians in Gaza. But
Speaker:this overall service, the spirit was there was a
Speaker:a sense of Christian conferencing. And
Speaker:we knew that we had to vote on matters. The 1st week was
Speaker:legislative committees meeting to discuss all of these petitions,
Speaker:over a 1000 petitions that had come to general conference because it
Speaker:had been postponed, and there were new petitions that had to be added.
Speaker:But when we began, we began in in a spirit of worship, the
Speaker:preaching was outstanding. We heard preaching from new bish
Speaker:bishops who had been been elected in 2022.
Speaker:We heard the from the 1st Native American Bishop elected in the United
Speaker:Methodist Church, from the 1st female bishop from the
Speaker:Philippines elected, to preach. So we had a lot of
Speaker:firsts and we had some outstanding
Speaker:preaching. The preaching and worship that focused, listen to this, Brad, on the
Speaker:sovereignty of God and the joy that comes when we
Speaker:proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord. So the spirit
Speaker:was great. The the worship music was was great. We had
Speaker:we had we had an or an a traditional pipe
Speaker:org organ and we organ music. We had contemporary
Speaker:music. We had an African men's choir. So
Speaker:the worship was great and the spirit, I think, was really
Speaker:great. There was some anxiety because people knew that we were gonna
Speaker:be voting on matters that we have contested for over
Speaker:50 years. Right. You said a couple things there. I just think are notable
Speaker:that we note them. You talked about the sovereignty of God, the
Speaker:spirit of joy that was there, but also you talked about a
Speaker:post conflict movement. And to to me that says
Speaker:we leave kinda leave the conflict in the past. Doesn't mean we're not gonna have
Speaker:differences of our opinion in how we do things moving forward, but
Speaker:a movement means we're moving forward. Did you get the sense that we
Speaker:were actually moving forward, making progress, that
Speaker:we weren't just kinda stuck in this weird place we have been
Speaker:for a few years now. Where are we making progress? I think so. And I
Speaker:think part of that, even for me, bishops don't get to vote.
Speaker:So we are either presiding or observing or
Speaker:encouraging and praying for this conference during the in real
Speaker:time. But I think even the the vote
Speaker:on regionalization and the discussion and the attempt to explain
Speaker:it so people can understand it is a is a is a is a
Speaker:testimony that we can't do things the way we've always done them for
Speaker:200 years in the United Methodist Church. The world
Speaker:changes at a much more rapid pace, you know this, Brad, than
Speaker:every 4 years. So some of the decisions, I think,
Speaker:made at this general conference acknowledge the fact
Speaker:that we need, as a church, to be more nimble and to be more need
Speaker:to be more contextual. And we need to celebrate our growth in
Speaker:Africa and other places, but also position ourselves to be in
Speaker:ministry with all of the people in the various places where
Speaker:we find ourselves. You mentioned nimble and contextual. I just
Speaker:wanna make sure there was some concern going in the general conference that
Speaker:we may not have good representation from Africa and other places
Speaker:in the world and good diversity. Do you feel like we were
Speaker:well represented in the in the whole body of the church there? Were
Speaker:we were people okay with how things the the the makeup of the
Speaker:body? I think we it was a very diverse general
Speaker:conference in terms of those who had voting rights. The the
Speaker:the delegations, I say that plural, from
Speaker:Africa were underrepresented
Speaker:in terms of the numbers that they had who were eligible to be there.
Speaker:Some of that was because they didn't get visas or they get
Speaker:they they didn't get their travel arrangements
Speaker:confirmed in time. In fact, there were some people still coming to general
Speaker:conference after we had started. So there were additional people
Speaker:that came after the conference already. But I I forget what the specific
Speaker:numbers is. Don't quote me on it. But I think there should have been at
Speaker:least an additional 40 delegates, if
Speaker:not more, from Africa who were eligible to be there and to be
Speaker:voting. But because of various reasons, including the the
Speaker:time and the ability to get visas to travel to
Speaker:the United States for a conference that that was prohibited
Speaker:from happening. Some people, you know, wanted to cast the blame
Speaker:on the the the those who plan it and others where some of
Speaker:it is post pandemic realities, and some of it has to
Speaker:do with embassies and so forth in countries where you have to
Speaker:go and interview. I asked the question only because it has to do with what
Speaker:you're saying there because, you know, we're gonna we're gonna talk here very shortly about
Speaker:these, you know, very major issues, and we just didn't want
Speaker:to have the sense that some people were not represented on
Speaker:some of these contentious issues, and, you know, it is what it
Speaker:is at this point. It the decisions have been made. And
Speaker:you mentioned one of the key ones already there with you mentioned about
Speaker:regionalization. So let's that was a hot button issue.
Speaker:And I before we kinda jump into what the vote was and what we
Speaker:did there, for our listeners, for our to be encouraged listeners, can you
Speaker:I know it's a little tough to do. Can you help us understand
Speaker:the whole regionalization issue? Just give us a synopsis of it before we jump
Speaker:into what we did at general conference. Well, our
Speaker:church let me see how. Our church is is is
Speaker:the United Methodist Church is active and alive in
Speaker:various on various continents. So we have United Methodist in the
Speaker:Philippines. We have United Methodist in Europe. We
Speaker:have United Methodist on the continent of Africa. The
Speaker:and we have United Methodist in the United States. In the United States,
Speaker:we're divided into 5 jurisdictions.
Speaker:Outside of the United States, all of those United
Speaker:Methodists are part of central conferences
Speaker:or or or what we would really consider that similar to what we are
Speaker:gonna we we refer to as regional areas. So in
Speaker:those areas, they have certain things that they can deal that
Speaker:they can do to adapt our book of discipline
Speaker:so that so that United Methodism can be best expressed
Speaker:in their cultural and country context. So they may
Speaker:not have to have all the various committees that we have, or
Speaker:they may not have to organize their ordination ordained ministry and
Speaker:so forth exactly the way the United States does. So, basically,
Speaker:regionalization would put everybody, I think, on the same
Speaker:organizational playing field, if you will. And a lot of the things we
Speaker:do at a 4 year gathering of what we call a general
Speaker:worldwide meeting really focus on the United
Speaker:States. Almost some have argued as much as 80% of what
Speaker:we debate and vote on really only impacts the
Speaker:United States. And so we're asking persons who come
Speaker:from other central conferences or
Speaker:other regions of the church to come and to what we call
Speaker:a worldwide global gathering and vote on things. Often,
Speaker:many of those things are dictated driven by, say, for
Speaker:example, our pension plan that may apply to to the
Speaker:churches in the US or some other structural things.
Speaker:And the fact that there are different laws in different parts of the
Speaker:world. So regionalization doesn't detract from us
Speaker:being connectional. So, like, we all are connected. You know, African
Speaker:University is an example. We all are connected. We're all
Speaker:connected by the way in which we share general apportionments for our general
Speaker:boards and agencies. We're all connected by the work of our missionaries
Speaker:and deaconesses. But this would allow regionalization
Speaker:would allow the United States to be a
Speaker:separate region and all of the other, the areas
Speaker:would also be a region in which we could add address some
Speaker:things, maybe in an annual annual or biannual meeting to
Speaker:address things that only that only are particular to that
Speaker:region, to that area. And jurisdictions, which we
Speaker:currently have, are really a vestige from,
Speaker:segregation. They actually, jurisdiction in the United States
Speaker:were created because we didn't wanna have persons
Speaker:of color having to dictate Mhmm. K. Who would be elected bishops
Speaker:in different regions. So in effect, just to kinda get put in a
Speaker:another view, if if the United if general
Speaker:conferences like the United Nations, everybody coming together, we we the
Speaker:United Nations does not necessarily want to be making decisions about what happened
Speaker:in the United States only about our highway
Speaker:budget or whatever it would be. So we just need to have
Speaker:proper understanding of how to do church in the
Speaker:various context of the areas. So that's what my understanding of
Speaker:it is, basically. I kinda put it in that context, but let's talk about what
Speaker:we actually did because we had an issue that need to be addressed one way
Speaker:or another, or at least in my opinion, need to be addressed. So what happened
Speaker:at general conference to address regionalization? How did the
Speaker:debate go? How did the flow go? How did we come out with this?
Speaker:Well, regionalization was passed, and and
Speaker:it requires a change of our constitution the way in which the church
Speaker:is constructed. So that's the first step. And if
Speaker:something is passed at a general conference that requires the change of the
Speaker:constitution of the church or the way in which the church is
Speaker:organized, then it then has to be
Speaker:voted on at every single annual conference and
Speaker:receive a majority vote at those annual
Speaker:conferences. And then it becomes the aggregate
Speaker:vote of those all of those annual conferences are certified by the
Speaker:council of bishops. Then that change would actually go into place. Then
Speaker:the then the then the next step would have to have to happen. What does
Speaker:that mean for the way in which we would have our meetings? What does that
Speaker:mean for the way in which we would finally shape
Speaker:a worldwide book of discipline as opposed to disciplines that would
Speaker:apply to those regions. So the next people who
Speaker:may have angst about, oh, we're changing the church just like a lot of things,
Speaker:Brad. It takes a lot longer than we anticipated. So regionalization
Speaker:really would not be implemented for at least a year, if
Speaker:not 2 years, because some places would be able to
Speaker:vote on it at their annual conference at the end of 2024.
Speaker:But some of us will not vote on this until next year,
Speaker:And it would take all of the annual conferences across the
Speaker:denomination to approve it and and for for
Speaker:the aggregate number, the of approval then to be
Speaker:certified by the council of bishops. So so it does first
Speaker:step. So the the first step so it has to be ratified by every annual
Speaker:conference or not. Yes. And then the aggregate, as you said,
Speaker:is it counted up at a is that at the next general conference we do
Speaker:that, or is it a It would be before the next general conference, but it
Speaker:would be after all that it would come to the council of bishops for ratification.
Speaker:Council of bishops to affirm or to to to not have It
Speaker:won't take 4 more years, but it could take 2 more years. Yeah. Well and
Speaker:so just to kind of put it in the context of kind of a American
Speaker:polity, American government understanding, If you have a constitutional change in the United
Speaker:States Constitution, it has to be ratified by a majority of states to
Speaker:become a part of the Constitution. Absolutely. Thank you, Grant. That takes
Speaker:sometimes years to make a decision about that, and that's really what we're
Speaker:talking about here. So this is basically this issue of
Speaker:regionalization will be on the agenda of every annual
Speaker:conference either in 24 or 25. Is that the plan?
Speaker:That's the plan. And for in case of Indiana, it'd be 25. But
Speaker:for some conferences, it would be, you know, later this
Speaker:summer or later So at least in at least in theory, by the end
Speaker:of 25, we should have an answer in terms of the ratification votes
Speaker:for the various annual conference. So we'll see. But it's but tell
Speaker:me but but there was just in terms of general conference that
Speaker:just took place, the vote to adopt for the
Speaker:constitutional change was a was that a close vote, or was
Speaker:that a significant majority? It was a significant majority. It would most
Speaker:of the just about all of the change that took place represent a
Speaker:significant majority. And I I don't think the numbers even those
Speaker:the number of persons who were not able to attend general conference who
Speaker:would have been voting, I don't think it would have changed the outcome based on
Speaker:the numbers that were turned. So it wasn't it wasn't close like in
Speaker:previous years, some of the things related to the change of
Speaker:of our book of discipline or our social principle, my the
Speaker:items that were related to particularly human sexual had been close
Speaker:votes. This was not a regionally It was would something
Speaker:like 500 to 50 or something like that, if I recall correctly. Yeah.
Speaker:Don't ask me. I don't see the number. But it was a significant vote. Well,
Speaker:let's move on to you just touched on it there. Some of the,
Speaker:the next hot button that people really want to know about and get your opinion
Speaker:about your take on is the vote for the removal of harmful
Speaker:language around homosexuality, LBGTQ
Speaker:issues, in order to be a fully inclusive church. So just walk us
Speaker:through that, Bishop. How did that go? How did that play out? Tell us about
Speaker:what happened when we talked about the removal of harmful language. Well,
Speaker:a lot of the some of the good things that happened actually happened on on
Speaker:consent calendar or either came to the came to the
Speaker:body when we did still have to vote on those things in the
Speaker:plenary recession really were resulted in a great
Speaker:both a sigh of relief and and and celebratory
Speaker:dancing and and and and and and and praising. Now
Speaker:everybody wasn't happy with the decision, but I think more
Speaker:were more were pleased that the church has moved in a in
Speaker:a direction that that that we can say we welcome everybody as in one
Speaker:of our congregation says with no exceptions. Mhmm. That all are
Speaker:welcome. So this happened also with a significant
Speaker:majority vote. And here's something, doctor
Speaker:Miller, that that I really I'm gonna use her quote when we need to get
Speaker:her, reverend Ashley reverend doctor Ashley Bogan, general
Speaker:secretary of the United Methodist Archives in History. She
Speaker:said after our general conference, for the first time in
Speaker:240 years, the Methodist Church no longer
Speaker:has discriminatory language in our United Methodist book of
Speaker:discipline. Wow. Praise be to God. Yay,
Speaker:God. Yay, God. And just the fact that it's even who's there is
Speaker:just grinds you, doesn't it? It just makes you just
Speaker:crazy a little bit to think that that type of language has been there. And
Speaker:so anybody who wanted to be critical of United Methodist Church had grounds to do
Speaker:it in terms of that's in our discipline. So, yeah.
Speaker:Well, some people said we always have we've always had to keep somebody
Speaker:that we are, you know, that we that that are that that we're
Speaker:discriminating against or excluding. Some would say we're or exclude.
Speaker:I mean, so if it's 240 years, we know this discussion hasn't been
Speaker:going on. So how could that be? Well, there was a period of time where
Speaker:only slaves was the issue. Yeah. There's a period of time in which
Speaker:segregation of Methodists was an issue and resulted
Speaker:in the start the establishment of black Methodist
Speaker:churches. There was a period of time, Brad, when women could not be
Speaker:ordained. Oh, yeah. And that was the root, Lou. So doctor
Speaker:Martin Luther King Julius said, and I think maybe I've heard you use his quote
Speaker:as well. Absolutely. But but progress does not roll in on
Speaker:the wheels of inevitability. So to those who said, well, it C
Speaker:like a long time. I didn't know it was just 1996
Speaker:that we had instituted the prohibition for
Speaker:pastors to perform weddings. So some of these changes, first, 9
Speaker:1972, I think the homosexuality and Christian teaching.
Speaker:1984, we made it worse, or we made it more excluded,
Speaker:1996. And in 2019, we
Speaker:added penalties Hell, yeah. Where, you know, people would be set would
Speaker:be suspended or or in other other traditions,
Speaker:they say defrocked. So for all time in
Speaker:240 years, we no longer have discriminatory
Speaker:language. And just to be clear, all that language is gone, and it is
Speaker:in in effect as we speak today. It was effect as of the end
Speaker:of end of general conference. We don't have to wait till January or anything like
Speaker:that. Have to wait till Jesus comes back. So so
Speaker:Well, I just, but that's a as far as I'm concerned, I know, you
Speaker:feel similarly that's good news in terms of us being an
Speaker:inclusive church and gives a lots of churches kind of the
Speaker:backing in order to move forward in ministry. And, you
Speaker:mentioned how this is kind of takes away this language, but it
Speaker:also I think it's helpful to understand that in
Speaker:terms of its application in the local church or for local church
Speaker:pastors, there's still a lot of discernment for a local church pastor
Speaker:and church to do what they feel led to
Speaker:do. For a local church, you know, we talked we talked about the
Speaker:enactment in 96 of banning gay weddings and so on
Speaker:by clergy. Well, now a clergy person can do a
Speaker:a gay wedding. Or not. Or not.
Speaker:Or not. And that's key there. Can you say a word about its application
Speaker:of this decision into the local church and for local church pastors,
Speaker:how it's going to play out, or the opportunities for it to be applied
Speaker:or to be held up as a means for other
Speaker:decisions to be made. I think it frees us up for really
Speaker:authenticity and for people to be faithful to their own
Speaker:conscience and their way in which they interpret their roles and
Speaker:responsibilities as church leaders and as local congregations.
Speaker:I always felt as a pastor that I had discretion over
Speaker:whether or not I would officiate a wedding. Now, technically, people are
Speaker:really getting married by the law by by the state or, you
Speaker:know, they turn it into the county or the state. They're they're licensed. So they're
Speaker:coming to to have a a blessed ceremony in the sight of God,
Speaker:we often say. So I think this really frees up pastors
Speaker:to do ministry with all the people in their context for ministry. And if
Speaker:it's up there, there's some people I look back on now, and maybe I
Speaker:shouldn't have done the weddings. These were, you know, heterosexual comp
Speaker:so so Sure. So I think pastors really should take seriously.
Speaker:And congregations, some churches have wedding policies.
Speaker:Right. They don't do weddings in the church. Or and this will allow
Speaker:pastors as well as congregations to determine whether or not they
Speaker:will or will not host same gender
Speaker:weddings. And so I think this is a step forward,
Speaker:and it does not penalize anyone or make assumptions
Speaker:that people are going to do something that would make them
Speaker:violate their own conscience or their own theological.
Speaker:So just to be clear, there's nothing happened here that says forces a church or
Speaker:a local church pastor, you must have a same gender wedding. There's
Speaker:nothing like that. If you don't wanna do it, you don't have to. Right?
Speaker:That is correct. That's correct. And that's how I figured it. That's how I think
Speaker:it would be applied. Yeah. I think many many there
Speaker:I think there've been a number of pastors who really felt who've carried for years
Speaker:maybe that, you know, I feel like I'm get that we have 2 tier we
Speaker:have a 2 tiered system of rights and access
Speaker:for ministry. And so now that has been removed
Speaker:so people have equal access to to the services
Speaker:of the church and pastors maybe feel I can be in ministry with
Speaker:all of my parishioners in an equal way
Speaker:when it comes to this particular part of our ministry. So you're thinking in
Speaker:practice for local churches and for annual conferences for that matter,
Speaker:this is gonna free up opportunities to do ministry
Speaker:to whomever they wanna do. Do you think it's gonna kinda take some of the
Speaker:constraints off? Do you think at least there's a possibility? Yeah. I I think what
Speaker:it does is that for United Methodist, we have had you know,
Speaker:maybe I'm not assuming that people will come back in droves, but I think we've
Speaker:lost a lot of United Methodists who maybe grew up, were baptized in
Speaker:churches, and maybe they're part of the queer community. Maybe they
Speaker:identify as LGBTQ Julius, and they they
Speaker:they gave up on the church. And and and, you know, everybody's
Speaker:not necessarily gravitating to the church because
Speaker:they wanna have a wedding, but they a lot of people wanna be in a
Speaker:church where they feel like the rights are equal across the
Speaker:board in places where it's legal. So if you're in a country where mayor
Speaker:same gender wedding, marriage is not legal, then this doesn't this this
Speaker:doesn't apply to to to, churches outside the United States.
Speaker:They're not being forced to. Well, let's let's also go a little deeper around clergy
Speaker:themselves because, you know, the part of the harmful language had to do
Speaker:with basically not allowing, LGBTQ people
Speaker:to be ordained. We do we both know that it happened and so on and
Speaker:so forth. There's lots of background on that. But talk about the implications
Speaker:of this language being removed regarding the ordination of
Speaker:LBGTQ people, and what are the implications for the church in that
Speaker:regard? Well, I think what it does is I don't know if this is a
Speaker:good analogy or not. It may be appropriate or inappropriate. But
Speaker:we think about the military where they had a no don't ask,
Speaker:don't tell policy maybe under the Clinton administration.
Speaker:But but people can join the military and and rise up in the
Speaker:ranks even if they're openly gay, if they meet the requirements to
Speaker:serve in the military. And I think persons who have had a
Speaker:call from God for to service and men to to serve in
Speaker:ministry can pursue that process in the United
Speaker:Methodist Church if they meet the qualifications
Speaker:for for ordinate license and ordination, and they go through
Speaker:the process. So being gay or openly gay
Speaker:does not prohibit you or exclude you from being
Speaker:a qualified candidate for ministry. Am I answering the question,
Speaker:Brad? I I think so. But I wanna go a little deeper in the sense
Speaker:here. Do you not think that there was, in spite of
Speaker:many great things happening in our church, LGBTQ
Speaker:clergy who were part of the body often felt
Speaker:just kind of this, you know Cloud? This cloud or this
Speaker:hammer hanging over this, you know, the pit. I forgot the sword sword
Speaker:of the hand of the police over. Okay. They if they slipped up, that they
Speaker:could be brought up on charges. They could go to some sort of a church
Speaker:trial, they could be somehow humiliated or somehow
Speaker:done wrong or just treated badly, and it did
Speaker:happen. We know it had happened. People have been sued. I know you've been involved
Speaker:with a couple of those things as well. But do you think maybe this will
Speaker:help in the sense of this cloud that is there,
Speaker:hopefully, has been been lifted, and we can now get on with
Speaker:ministry, And these folks who may have felt some
Speaker:some anxiety about this situation can get on with ministry.
Speaker:Absolutely. You you've answered you've answered the question. Yes.
Speaker:I I think this cloud has been lifted, and there's some there there
Speaker:there's a need to say, you know, I regret I'm sorry that that it's
Speaker:taken this long. People have been hurt and harmed. We say that our we
Speaker:not saying our general rule say do no harm. And I think
Speaker:what we've done is, we've we've allowed we've
Speaker:we've attempted to be be be pharisaic about
Speaker:our laws. And so people were brought up on charges
Speaker:because that's what our discipline prescribed or
Speaker:or made made provision for. If persons
Speaker:were violating the covenant, if you will, or violating the discipline,
Speaker:they were subject to charges on the 2702 of
Speaker:the book of discipline. So so thou being
Speaker:being openly gay does not put you in
Speaker:danger of that. But there there's, I know, a lot of pain. A lot
Speaker:of tears have been shed and will be shed because of the people
Speaker:maybe that we've lost or people that have were were were were were
Speaker:stymied from proceeding in their process.
Speaker:And, you know, I don't I don't think there there's any
Speaker:bad intention in this other than I think this is
Speaker:God's time for this for our church, and we now
Speaker:have made some decisions in our legislative body,
Speaker:the general conference, to become a different United Methodist
Speaker:Church than we were prior to the postponed 2020
Speaker:general conference that was held in 2024. I wanna come back to
Speaker:that phrase. We're a different church now than we were before general
Speaker:conference. But let's at least touch on a couple 2 other hot button issues and
Speaker:get your take your your, your take on those, and then we'll
Speaker:conclude with some of these matters of how we're a different church. The areas I'm
Speaker:talking about revised social principles and the disaffiliation, kind
Speaker:of the ending date for them. Let's take disaffiliation first. You
Speaker:know, there was a process here for churches to disaffiliate, and now that
Speaker:window is closed. Is that my understanding that we're we're at on that?
Speaker:Yeah. That that that there was a provision made in 2019
Speaker:added to our book of discipline in a paragraph called 20
Speaker:paragraph 2553 that provided provisions for
Speaker:churches for churches to exit
Speaker:what we could some call a gracious exit if they met cert if they met
Speaker:certain requirements that had been established by the board of
Speaker:trustees. That had a sunset date, meaning December
Speaker:31, 2023. Those churches had to
Speaker:have completed that process. So some were coming to
Speaker:general conference and had been told that we we
Speaker:didn't know what would come out of general conference, if there would be some kind
Speaker:of a extension or new form or new
Speaker:provision for people to exit as a congregation.
Speaker:There have always been the there people can always leave a church
Speaker:that's not unique to United Methodism. You know, a member can be a
Speaker:member of a body in shoes because of their own conviction or
Speaker:because God is leading them somewhere else or they've been harmed or hurt
Speaker:to exit a congregation. But this notion of
Speaker:a congregation leaving the denomination, we weren't designed for
Speaker:that as a denomination. So that's why it's not easy to
Speaker:do. So the effort at general conference this time to kind of
Speaker:extend that or to change that ruling That passed. Did not pass. And so
Speaker:that's what I wanna be clear about. So the window is now closed for churches
Speaker:to disaffiliate, and we have the basically, the,
Speaker:the old rules of the discipline that apply to any church that wants
Speaker:to follow that pathway, needs to go through Yeah. We we
Speaker:have now there will be in our conference, we have a team that's gonna
Speaker:be examining the book of discipline. And if churches
Speaker:if churches, you know, are you know, if we had some churches that were on
Speaker:the didn't meet the meet the deadline, But
Speaker:but, you know, if 99 if everybody in the the pres large
Speaker:percent of the congregation is already wanting to exit or
Speaker:cease becoming a United Methodist Church. There are provisions in the
Speaker:book of discipline for that. Still pathways for the them to do that, but the
Speaker:one we had from 2019, that provision. That that is sunset.
Speaker:And and I every everything associated with it at sunset.
Speaker:And I think this is a Trimble, really, for us to lean in together. I
Speaker:said this before we had this affiliation, but I think it's a time
Speaker:for United Methodist to really start not turn inward,
Speaker:but turn outward to our communities because we we are we
Speaker:are having a shrinking impact on our general society.
Speaker:Sure. Because many people look at the church as being totally focused
Speaker:on on on its current membership and not about
Speaker:the current reality. But speaking of leaning into our
Speaker:communities, we're talking about society. And there were some changes
Speaker:to there was a revision of the social principles. And I know that's
Speaker:kinda close to your heart because before too long, you're gonna be the CEO
Speaker:of the General Board of Churches Society, and, later on this fall.
Speaker:So tell us what happened regarding a little bit of what happened at general conference
Speaker:regarding the revision of the social principles. How did
Speaker:that shake out? What are the implications moving forward? Well, the
Speaker:all of this of the the the social principles were adopted,
Speaker:all of the changes. It was a it's a 12 it's been a 12 year
Speaker:process because the general conference of 2012
Speaker:commissioned a a a commitment a commission a
Speaker:committee to rewrite the social principles so they
Speaker:could they could be updated, made more applicable to
Speaker:places outside of the United States. Again, So so the
Speaker:social premise can be more applicable to the worldwide nature of the United
Speaker:Methodist and more succinct. They were they were so lengthy
Speaker:that most people couldn't get their heads around them. So all of that was accomplished
Speaker:in the new revised Bishop of the social principles.
Speaker:We adopted an up the updated social principles with a
Speaker:commitment, Brad, to care for creation, condemnation of
Speaker:racism and tribalism. We support policies
Speaker:that and practices to prevent sexual harassment.
Speaker:We endorse C to ensure access to clean drinking water
Speaker:and sufficient food nourishment across the globe.
Speaker:We call on church and society to support and advocate for the well-being
Speaker:of all children and young people. That sounds like something that's dear and
Speaker:near to our heart here in Indiana. So the social principles, I think,
Speaker:are a stronger document now. Keep in mind,
Speaker:Brad, the social principles are not law, but they're
Speaker:an expression of what United Methodist believe we
Speaker:should be investing in and advocating for as it relates to the
Speaker:church and our society. Alright. Right. Well, it sounds
Speaker:a little bit like Julius, maybe. What do you think? Yeah. How
Speaker:about that? Well, let's bring well, I just bring this conversation around, Bishop,
Speaker:today. She talked about change. We talked about the process here. We're talking about the
Speaker:4 general conference 2024, which is really 2020.
Speaker:The and what and what we are the differences now moving forward.
Speaker:We have said in the past that our mission is to to United Methodist Church
Speaker:to make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the
Speaker:world. I might ask you as you come out of general conference, you said we're
Speaker:different. Are we still is that still our mission? You know, are we
Speaker:still a church that has primacy
Speaker:on grace? Are we still a church? Are we a church that
Speaker:does have a place for everyone moving forward? Give us kind of the state of
Speaker:the church. What's different now? What do you think as we move
Speaker:forward? Well, I think this is our this is our
Speaker:opportunity, our season. Bishop Ruby Estrella
Speaker:from the Philippines, she said this in her message
Speaker:to general conference, Brad. She said, we need to speak
Speaker:more about Jesus. Oh. Oh, yeah. And, basically
Speaker:basically, I think there's a matter of a matter of
Speaker:pointing ourselves forward and going on one of what
Speaker:one of our members here in Indiana said lay member said, Bishop, we
Speaker:need to go on the offense when it comes to, oh, love naming the
Speaker:gospel as opposed to being on the defense about what we
Speaker:are in fighting about Yeah. In terms of our interpretation of
Speaker:scripture, interpretation of the discipline. We've been on our we've been on our heels too
Speaker:long, Evan. We've been on our heels too long. We need to lean forward. Okay.
Speaker:Yeah. Good. Well, any part final thoughts you have, Bishop, that you wanna leave with
Speaker:the folks in Indiana and around around the world? Yep. There are a couple other
Speaker:things that we didn't touch on. We probably Oh, yeah. Another app. You know,
Speaker:deacons. Oh, okay. Yes. Deacons now have
Speaker:sacramental privileges, particularly as it relates to this holy
Speaker:communion. And I know since I've been a bishop, there's you
Speaker:know, rarely a a couple of months go by where there's not a request
Speaker:for deacon to have sacramental privileges because of their
Speaker:context for ministry, whether it's in a hospice or
Speaker:chaplaincy or jail ministry or or
Speaker:serving in a local multiple rural area, and
Speaker:there may not be but deacons now don't have to ask
Speaker:permission from their bishop to preside over
Speaker:the sacrament of holy communion. Now some say this this maybe requires some further
Speaker:conversation around what do the different orders mean and,
Speaker:you know, what are we ordained for and so forth. I
Speaker:always say that the sacrament really is Jesus Christ, and Christ is the one
Speaker:who invites us to the table. So I think it'll
Speaker:be a as a practical matter, I think that will help the sacramental
Speaker:ministry to get closer and deeper into local churches
Speaker:quicker, to be honest with you. And that'll be a a a a good thing.
Speaker:Well, any closing thoughts for us, Bishop, or any other details you wanna mention here
Speaker:before we ask you to have a prayer to close us out? And I think
Speaker:we're just beginning this conversation, aren't we? We're gonna do a lot of interpreting of
Speaker:the general conference and other things moving forward. I really wanna have a whole session
Speaker:with you sometime about the local church, about how it all applies
Speaker:there. So we could talk about that sometime down the road. Yeah. 1930.
Speaker:Let me close with this. In 1930, archbishop William Temple
Speaker:preached at the opening of the 7th Lambeth conference. And this
Speaker:is what he said. You probably heard this, Brad. He said this is in
Speaker:1930. He said, assuring his colleagues,
Speaker:while we deliberate, God reigns. When we
Speaker:decide wisely, God reigns.
Speaker:When we decide foolishly, God reigns.
Speaker:When we serve God in humble loyalty, God
Speaker:still reigns. When we rebel and seek to withhold our
Speaker:service and seek to do it our way I'm paraphrasing. God
Speaker:still reigns. God reigns. Yes. The alpha and the omega,
Speaker:the beginning and the end, which was and which will come the
Speaker:almighty. We can decide however we decide. We can debate as
Speaker:long as we want to debate. God still
Speaker:reigns. God still reigns. And such as that, to God be the glory,
Speaker:for what God has done, will do, and will continue to do through The United
Speaker:Methodist Church. Awesome. Can you pray us out, Bishop? Lord
Speaker:God, we give you thanks and praise for the blessing of love and affirmation
Speaker:for all of God's people. I've said it before, Lord. I
Speaker:learned a long time ago, whether you you call yourself
Speaker:light leaning right or leaning left, We we live
Speaker:best when we lean upon the everlasting arms of god. Bless us, oh
Speaker:god, that we might not only give
Speaker:thanks for the grace of God, but be extensions
Speaker:of that grace to all people. In Jesus'
Speaker:name, amen. Amen. You've been listening
Speaker:to the To Be Encouraged podcast with Bishop
Speaker:Julius c Trimble. This is the podcast where we offer an encouraging
Speaker:word to an often discouraged world.
