Episode 102
Love Over Law: The United Methodist Church's Path Forward through General Conference. A Conversation with Rev. Larry Whitehead. Part 3 of a 4 Part Series of Episode Preparing for General Conference 2024
Bishop Julius C. Trimble is the Resident Bishop of the Indiana Area of the United Methodist Church.
Bishop Trimble has the personal mission to encourage all people with the love of Jesus Christ to rise to their highest potential. It is his commitment to his personal mission that led Bishop Trimble to create the “To Be Encouraged” Podcast along with co-host Rev.Dr. Brad MIller.
Bishop Trimble says, “I am compelled by Jesus to share with you an encouraging word or two about Jesus, theology, the Bible, the pandemic, the environment, racism, voting rights, human sexuality, and the state of the United Methodist Church.”
To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble is to be published weekly and is available at www.tobeencouraged.com and all the podcast directories.
https://www.inumc.org/bishop/office-of-the-bishop/
In Episode 102 of To Be Encouraged Bishop Julius C. Trimble and Rev. Dr. Brad Miller engages in a profound conversation with, Rev. Larry Whitehead who serves as Exective Assistant to Bishop Trimble and is a delegate to General Conference.
. Here are three key takeaways from their discussion about the state of the church, its challenges, and the hopeful path forward:
1. **The Call for Grace-Driven Culture**
Bishop Trimble highlights the pressing need for a grace-driven church culture. In a time when division within the church is causing many, including Rev. Miller's sons, to drift away, Bishop Trimble underscores the importance of making room for diverse opinions and demonstrating love and unity. This approach aims to foster a welcoming environment where individuals feel included and respected despite disagreements. The conversation reminds us that the essence of the church is not found in uniformity but in the gracious acceptance of one another, as witnessed in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
2. **Discipleship Over Decisions**
Rev. Miller and Rev. Whitehead emphasize discipleship's critical role, suggesting a shift away from fixating on the outcomes of general conference decisions. Rather, they advocate for concentrating on living out the Great Commandment and the Great Commission in our communities. By focusing on making disciples who embody Christ's love and service, the church can redirect its energy from institutional preservation to fulfilling its mission. Their insights echo Trimble's conviction that the church's resilience is not rooted in its structures but in its ability to serve and grow disciples of Jesus Christ, even as it faces changes and challenges.
3. **Optimism in Action**
Throughout the episode, Bishop Trimble and Rev. Whitehead share their optimistic outlook for the church's future, especially in light of the ongoing transformations within the United Methodist Church in Indiana. Mentioned are the proactive steps taken toward inclusivity and service, such as supporting education through scholarships at Africa University, the birth of new congregations, and the repurposing of church spaces like the Milford Meeting House to serve community needs. These examples illustrate a pivot from a survival mentality to one of proactive witness and service, demonstrating the church's potential to make a transformative impact on individuals and communities.
The conversation concludes with a message of hope and encouragement, underscoring the guests' belief in the church's enduring faith despite the postponement of the general conference. Rev. Whitehead's personal faith story and his ongoing commitment to connectual ministry serve as a testament to the power of grace and discipleship in action, values that both he and Bishop Trimble implore listeners to uphold.
Please tune into the rest of the General Conference Series.
Part 1. Episode 100: was a conversation with General Conference Delegate Rev. Russ Abel.
Part 2. Episode 101: was a conversation with General Conference Delegate Rev. Dr. Aleze Fulbright
LINKS:
Indiana Conference UMC.
General Conference UMC.
UMC-https://www.umc.org/en/who-we-are/structure/general-conference
https://www.resourceumc.org/en/churchwide/general-conference-2020
Transcript
And our, guest, today is reverend Larry
Speaker:Whitehead, who's the chief of staff and the executive assistant
Speaker:to the bishop. He has served in connectual ministries and as a
Speaker:conference superintendent. But perhaps most importantly about Larry is
Speaker:he is really all about helping pastors to abandon
Speaker:survival efforts and to instead discover vitality and focus
Speaker:on giving ourselves a way to connect people to the message of Jesus
Speaker:Christ. So, So, Bishop, can you help welcome, Larry to our
Speaker:podcast here today? Well, welcome my dear friend
Speaker:and colleague and assistant to the Bishop Larry
Speaker:Whitehead. We we, have offices that only a
Speaker:few feet apart, and we've, spent many
Speaker:of breakfast together and lunch together and and on some trips
Speaker:across the state of Indiana. So welcome,
Speaker:Larry Whitehead, reverend Larry Whitehead. Thank you, Bishop.
Speaker:Well, Larry, let's just start here for just a moment before we get into our
Speaker:some of our topic, which will revolve at least partially on general conference here, today
Speaker:as we are inch closer to that date. But tell us a little bit about
Speaker:your faith story, how you came to know Jesus Christ in the first place,
Speaker:and how that eventually led you to your role right now as assistant to the
Speaker:bishop. Absolutely. I was, I was
Speaker:born into a a a at what at at the time, into
Speaker:a family that attended a a Methodist church. That was before the
Speaker:the, what became United Methodist. That old.
Speaker:Same church, different name. Both my parents,
Speaker:my mother's family, my father's family were they were all Methodist.
Speaker:I guess I had no choice. And, but, my
Speaker:parents were active leaders in our congregation, and and I grew
Speaker:up in the church. And I was active, through high school. I was president of,
Speaker:we had a large youth group in back in the in the seventies.
Speaker:And and then I went off to college and off to claim the American
Speaker:dream of success and sort of left the church behind.
Speaker:And yet I reconnected to the church in part, in the early
Speaker:eighties and, with with the semi regular, church attendance.
Speaker:But on February 3, 1984, a little
Speaker:bit after 7 o'clock on a Friday night, God broke through to
Speaker:me in a moment that I can still remember almost like it was just yesterday.
Speaker:And when I held my first child in my hands just a few minutes after
Speaker:he was born, And I proclaimed my God, how
Speaker:great you are. My God. My God.
Speaker:And so God got a hold of me in a in a powerful way in
Speaker:that moment. And just a few years later, as the Holy Spirit continued to,
Speaker:trouble my soul, I found myself more and
Speaker:more connected to the church, and I was starting to wrestle with the
Speaker:call to ministry. A story of struggle and bargaining
Speaker:much longer, Brad, than I have time to tell today. Sure.
Speaker:But I went off then, that led me to finally say
Speaker:yes to God and was able to sleep at night.
Speaker:And, from there, I went on to,
Speaker:to resign at age 35. I resigned from my director position in
Speaker:hospital administration, and I dragged 3 young sons and a
Speaker:wife across the mountains to attend seminary. I,
Speaker:returned, 3 years later to Indiana to serve,
Speaker:over a period of years at 3 local churches until I was
Speaker:appointed to be the superintendent of the North District in 2013.
Speaker:And then I was appointed by Bishop Trimble to this role in
Speaker:2019 where I now serve as his ex
Speaker:executive assistant and the chief of staff
Speaker:for the conference. So Yes. I've that's that in a nutshell,
Speaker:that's, that's my story. Well, that's a awesome story. We love to hear the
Speaker:stories of faith, Donley Bishop. And, among the ways that,
Speaker:Larry also serves is not only his executive assistant and chief of
Speaker:staff, but he also has a role, in terms of general
Speaker:conference and being on the delegation. So, Bishop, I know you had some things you
Speaker:wanted to to chat with Larry about here today. Yeah. You know, when you're
Speaker:elected to general conference, in our denomination, we
Speaker:are, some say a church of conferences, Larry. You know, we have
Speaker:our every year, we have our annual conference, which I call the the
Speaker:big family reunion of those United Methodist Churches in
Speaker:Indiana, the one time we all get together, representatives from
Speaker:every church. Then every 4 years, we have what's called
Speaker:the general conference. And usually shortly after
Speaker:that, we have a jurisdictional conference where typically we
Speaker:elect new bishops. But the you were elected, early on
Speaker:in the, balloting as I recall as a
Speaker:delegate to general conference. But that seemed like so long ago,
Speaker:maybe, you can mention when that happened and,
Speaker:why why we are now just now meeting. And,
Speaker:actually, if I'm correct, this is the 2020
Speaker:general conference, which was scheduled for 2020 that was
Speaker:postponed, but we're now actually gathering as was
Speaker:because of the pandemic in 2024. So say a little
Speaker:bit about your election because the election typically means that
Speaker:your peers have respect for you and feel
Speaker:like you will represent the church well. But when did all of this happen, and
Speaker:what's your what's your going into this meeting, what are your expectations?
Speaker:Well, that's a that's a mouthful, Bishop. You are right. It
Speaker:was a long time ago. It was in 2019 at our
Speaker:annual conference, that the, the delegates were elected.
Speaker:And they were elected at that time to to attend the general
Speaker:conference, which was to be held, in Minnesota, in
Speaker:Minneapolis in, in in, in April of
Speaker:2020. But
Speaker:we'd like to forget it, but I think we can all remember that in early
Speaker:2020, the world took a detour.
Speaker:And, and, COVID kept us from from being able
Speaker:to to assemble in men in Minneapolis, in that
Speaker:year. And, and so that that was that was
Speaker:postponed. And and so we were we were then
Speaker:then it was then it was in it was gonna be that we were gonna
Speaker:meet in 22. And so we were all dressed up and
Speaker:ready to go for 22, and that got postponed as well.
Speaker:So this, this, this this gathering in Charlotte, North
Speaker:Carolina that's coming up here at the end of this month,
Speaker:will be will be, as you said, the 2020 the the meeting of the
Speaker:2020 general conference being held in
Speaker:2024. And if that's not confusing enough, there's probably some other
Speaker:things that we can throw in to make it more confusing. But that's that again,
Speaker:that's that's the summary of the way this works. We are also
Speaker:understanding that that that perhaps, there is a
Speaker:well, I shouldn't say there is a plan that perhaps
Speaker:we will meet again in 2026 to
Speaker:to to do some more work after, in response
Speaker:to what happens in 2024. The really confusing piece
Speaker:piece to that is that if that happens, this
Speaker:delegation voted in in 2019
Speaker:will continue is expected to be the same delegation that will
Speaker:meet again in 2026. And
Speaker:so I I I, again, as I said, let's
Speaker:I'm I'm trying to clarify it, but I'm afraid that it's a very confusing
Speaker:process. It is. You can't make this stuff up. What what's this
Speaker:saying? Get that and that and a nickel will get you a cup of
Speaker:coffee or something I have to get out of the same list. It it used
Speaker:to be a nickel, Bishop, but now it's $5. Yeah. I'm just saying. If you
Speaker:find it for a nickel, let me know. And, yeah, 625 at the Starbucks.
Speaker:Yeah. Well, you know, I'm people been asking
Speaker:me, Brad and Larry, about general conference, and they asked me what am I
Speaker:doing to get ready. And I say I'm giving thanks to God.
Speaker:I'm giving thanks to God for the church, before general
Speaker:conference because it and I've said this before. If the pandemic couldn't
Speaker:kill the church, nothing could. And I believe that
Speaker:Jesus this is right. When Peter confessed that Jesus
Speaker:was was the son of the living God, he said, upon this rock, upon this
Speaker:faith, upon our testimony, you know, I build my church and the
Speaker:gates of hell shall not prevail against it or other translations
Speaker:similar to that. So I don't believe there's anything that can destroy the church. I
Speaker:hope that the general conference will strengthen the church. So, Larry,
Speaker:maybe you may wanna comment. There's a lot of legislation.
Speaker:People ask me what what do I think about the general conference. I said, I've
Speaker:given thanks for God before general conference. I've been giving thanks to
Speaker:God after general conference. So what what's your take take on
Speaker:all the legislation and and, you know, whether we can churn
Speaker:transform the church in 10 days of of voting or not.
Speaker:Oops. Did I do so? Wow. That's
Speaker:a that that's that's a that's a that's a big, big question,
Speaker:Bishop. I don't think that
Speaker:I think it's a big it's a big it's a big task. And I think
Speaker:that to some degree that this general conference is is
Speaker:up to, avoiding what some have called kicking the
Speaker:can down the road. And I and I think that there there will
Speaker:be some serious, serious discussions. There will be some serious,
Speaker:movement made, Probably not all the movement well,
Speaker:almost certainly not all the movement that everyone would like to see,
Speaker:there because we have so many different different opinions around around those
Speaker:things. But I think there will be substantive movement,
Speaker:toward toward being being the church and being the church that the
Speaker:Wesleyan church that that we've that we've been called to to
Speaker:serve. I guess that
Speaker:that that that that I'd wanna say
Speaker:real upfront. And and and, Brad, I'm just I I I
Speaker:smiled when you did my part of the introduction, because this is
Speaker:the part that I really wanted to talk about this morning, and that was that
Speaker:my hope for the church is not bound up in general
Speaker:conference. I will go and I will be a
Speaker:a a a participant. I will be an active participant. I will have,
Speaker:my my role in at general conferences just will be,
Speaker:what we're all designated or delegated to to,
Speaker:different legislative groups. And my legislative groups group is
Speaker:finance and administration, just sort of where I
Speaker:live. And and I think there'll be some interesting,
Speaker:work that comes out of that area as well as well as the
Speaker:other areas. And, but Bishop, as a matter of fact, is gonna have a
Speaker:podcast, later on or a, a town hall, a Zoom town
Speaker:hall later on to today, where he'll talk specifically
Speaker:about some of those those things. But but my hope is not in
Speaker:my hope for the church. My hope for the the United
Speaker:Methodist Church is not bound up in what happens at general conference.
Speaker:My hope is what happens in local churches. And I
Speaker:smiled be this morning when you when you talked about my my,
Speaker:my piece around survival. I think that we just have to move away
Speaker:from a survival attitude. We have to move away from
Speaker:an understanding that ends and understand that that church can no longer
Speaker:be about what we like. Church can no no longer
Speaker:about be about what I like or what you like, for that
Speaker:matter, what the bishop likes. But it must be about
Speaker:the one we love in Jesus Christ. The church must be
Speaker:about that. And when we when we focus on
Speaker:that, we can make all kinds of difference. And we have and I
Speaker:can have all kinds of hope for for the church.
Speaker:To go on to that, to to I want I'd I'd support that by saying
Speaker:that and I love the way Bishop started off with, with
Speaker:quoting scripture, because because that's a pretty good
Speaker:place to start. Right? I want I note
Speaker:and I've noted when when I was a superintendent, talk I talked
Speaker:to my churches over and over and over again, then in 5 different
Speaker:places in in the gospels, all four gospels,
Speaker:the the the the 3 synoptic gospels and then even John got in
Speaker:on the act to quote Jesus in some way. There are 5 different
Speaker:places. There's 2 places in Matthew, 1 in Mark, 1 in Luke,
Speaker:and 1 in John, where Jesus says, whoever wants to save
Speaker:their life will lose it. But whoever loses their life for
Speaker:me, for the gospel, will save.
Speaker:And I think we need to take that seriously. I because because I think that
Speaker:that that that passage, that statement, those those words from
Speaker:Jesus that were re repeated over and over and
Speaker:over again in scripture. Don't just speak
Speaker:to our individual lives, but I believe powerfully that
Speaker:they also speak to our lives as the church, both
Speaker:the denomination and our individual churches. Whoever loses
Speaker:their life for me and the gospel will save it. But then what does it
Speaker:mean? What does it mean for a congregation? What does it mean
Speaker:for a church to lose their life for Jesus?
Speaker:Whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but they have this culture
Speaker:of survival that is absolutely sure to fail
Speaker:us. That but as the bishop says,
Speaker:we wanna be encouraged. And I wanna be encouraging to encouraging
Speaker:today because I see my hope in the church is seeing
Speaker:that we're starting to do that. We're starting to move away from that
Speaker:that survival mentality.
Speaker:Oh, man. Survival in a survival mentality, that looks that
Speaker:person looks like somebody who wants to we want to fill the plate,
Speaker:to fill the pew, or to fill a position that we're tired of doing.
Speaker:That's survival. But God has called us in our
Speaker:churches. We're seeing this in more and more and more and more places where our
Speaker:churches are understanding that that that they're flipping the switch. They're flipping
Speaker:over to to to where where that person that shows up at our
Speaker:at our door is no longer seen in those terms, but seen as a precious
Speaker:child of God and one that we want to to to lead to
Speaker:a a relationship with the living God in Jesus Christ.
Speaker:And that's powerful stuff. That's encouraging things. That's that's
Speaker:passionate, fruitful disciple making. And when and when
Speaker:we get our hands around that and move away from that
Speaker:survival understanding and trying to preserve an institution,
Speaker:well, then we can make a real difference for Jesus Christ. And and that's the
Speaker:encouraging place for me. Amen. You know, one of the things
Speaker:that will happen and one of the most significant things talked about is
Speaker:what might be changed in the book of discipline, our book of
Speaker:rules, our book of law and policy.
Speaker:But one of the things I've been thinking about is all of the things in
Speaker:the book of discipline that won't change or shouldn't change
Speaker:that sometimes we forget to emphasize. For example,
Speaker:in paragraph 120, local churches and extension
Speaker:ministries of the church provide the most significant arenas through
Speaker:which disciple making occurs. So we say it time and
Speaker:time again that we're in the business of making disciples of Jesus
Speaker:Christ, transforming the world, to make it more just and
Speaker:and equitable and more like truly beloved
Speaker:community. So it's not so much for me
Speaker:what paragraphs or sentences might be changed, and that I'm sure
Speaker:they will be. But it do we take serious the things that we
Speaker:we are proclaiming to the world? You know,
Speaker:Paul Chilcote, and we we had him on, and we we just
Speaker:recently had a Lenten book study. He says, what if the United
Speaker:Methodist Church were known to be the most loving
Speaker:church in the United States? The most welcoming,
Speaker:great graceful outward looking church in the United States.
Speaker:I'm adding a little bit to it. But, so I
Speaker:I I'm much more optimistic about the
Speaker:potential post general conference if
Speaker:we if we, as you say, Larry, proclaim the Christ,
Speaker:the the Christ crucified, Christ risen Christ, and not
Speaker:anticipate that somehow we're gonna go get together in a big meeting.
Speaker:We're gonna have great worship and then vote vote our way to a
Speaker:better future. I don't believe we can vote our way to a better future, but
Speaker:I do think we can we can witness our way to a better future,
Speaker:especially in Indiana. Word is, Larry, that there's
Speaker:4,000,000 people that don't have a church on. So
Speaker:Amen. And we've got churches out there, and, bishop, you know, we hear
Speaker:this every day that that that that they want this pastor. They want
Speaker:a a young pastor with children, and they want a young pastor
Speaker:who does this and that. And they've got a whole
Speaker:list of of things that that they that they want in this in this
Speaker:pastor. They they, they they want
Speaker:they want they want the world, for their pastor. They want, again, they want
Speaker:they want somebody who reminds them of the way things used to be.
Speaker:Right. But but to your point, what imagine if
Speaker:and to to kind of piggyback in the same vein that that, that
Speaker:doctor Chokot points. Imagine what
Speaker:if every church just if every church just wanted a pastor who could
Speaker:lead them in connecting to broken and hurting people.
Speaker:Mhmm. Hallelujah. What would happen? What would happen if
Speaker:if if if if churches,
Speaker:staff parish committees, church leadership,
Speaker:just just wanted all they wanted was a pastor who could lead them in connecting
Speaker:to broken and hurting people. We could make a big, big
Speaker:difference in those 4,000,000 lives that you just talked about. A big
Speaker:difference. Brad, what say it now? What
Speaker:questions do you have for our guests today? I wanna pick up
Speaker:on on one word that Larry mentioned that I just think strikes me
Speaker:because strikes home for me. That word is word is culture. You
Speaker:mentioned culture there in terms of the culture of the church and things of
Speaker:this nature, and I kinda relate it to my own situation
Speaker:of I have a an adult son who's getting married
Speaker:this month, and he's gonna be turn 30 before too long. And I
Speaker:have another son who's getting ready to graduate from grad school out in Oregon.
Speaker:And, and I know they don't wanna have much to do
Speaker:with the church anymore because, they see a
Speaker:culture that is not all that for them
Speaker:or welcoming. And, and I think
Speaker:there's this image that the church that when we use the word
Speaker:service, we may think about service, but a lot of times people
Speaker:outside the church see that serve us, you know, serve us instead
Speaker:of service. And so I'm just wondering what the real
Speaker:life impact of something like general conference is gonna be towards people like my 2
Speaker:adult sons who are kinda drifting away from the church,
Speaker:still have great values, still love the Lord,
Speaker:still wanna make a contribution. But how is it you're
Speaker:gonna impact people like my sons and other 20 somethings and other
Speaker:30 somethings and other young people out there or anybody else for that matter
Speaker:who's, kind of drifted apart? And they see their local United Methodist shirts kind of
Speaker:embroiled in some of this internal nonsense. And,
Speaker:is general conference gonna have any impact at all on them? And if so, what's
Speaker:it gonna be? And what do we do about to kinda changing this culture?
Speaker:I remember when Bishop Trimble
Speaker:first came to Indiana, and I don't think he was yet he had been
Speaker:assigned, but I don't think he would had yet come to serve us on
Speaker:September 1st. I believe it was in an August meeting that we had
Speaker:with him. And at that time,
Speaker:we were we knew that there were things that are gonna be on the table
Speaker:for for general that after general conference 2016, we
Speaker:knew that things were were we were moving toward a a general or a a
Speaker:called session of 2019. Didn't know what that might look
Speaker:like. But Bishop Trimble made some kind of made a
Speaker:statement, and I don't know if I'm gonna be able to get it exactly right.
Speaker:Maybe you can help clean it up for me, Bishop. But he said
Speaker:what his hope for the church at that time was that people would see how
Speaker:United Methodist could treat each other even when
Speaker:they disagreed with each other. And that would be
Speaker:a bold, bold witness to the world.
Speaker:I still have that hope because I'm certain that when we walk
Speaker:away from general conference this year, not everybody's
Speaker:gonna be pleased. I don't know what kind of decisions will be,
Speaker:be be decided on. I don't know what kind of,
Speaker:of perhaps, constitutional amendments amendments
Speaker:to the constitution of the Methodist Church, United Methodist Church might be approved.
Speaker:But I know that not everybody's gonna be happy. But what I hope
Speaker:for, Brad, and I think it's it would influence the culture that you're talking
Speaker:about. My hope for it my hope is that we can do that.
Speaker:We can disagree agreeably in love and
Speaker:witness to the world that that that we're different people.
Speaker:I don't know if that can be I don't know if that's gonna happen, but
Speaker:that's my hope. And if we can do that, then make a huge difference
Speaker:for you for for your children and my 5 adult children as
Speaker:well who are not in too much different than what you described.
Speaker:That's that's great, Brad. Thanks for bringing that up. I think our
Speaker:listeners really, that's something that resonates with a lot of the
Speaker:public, both in the church and outside the church. Some some of
Speaker:us are so tied historically to the church. We we
Speaker:couldn't we couldn't climb our ways out of the church even if
Speaker:we wanted to. We're so bound. But
Speaker:it's been said, and I don't know, Larry. I can't remember who said it, but,
Speaker:you know, they said culture each strategy for breakfast or something to that
Speaker:effect. And I think that some people see our church from the
Speaker:standpoint. They see the the culture of the church not much different
Speaker:than the culture of our society. So fear driven,
Speaker:tribal tribal driven, you know, divisive,
Speaker:and law driven. And I think one of the things hopefully coming out
Speaker:of general conference, my prayer and hope is
Speaker:that people will see and Bishop Kenny Carter and others have written about it.
Speaker:Paul Chirico writes about it. And we've talked with several people on the podcast
Speaker:about this. But then our culture from from the United Methodist Church would
Speaker:be much more grace driven. That's
Speaker:our Wesleyan heritage, grace. But most people see us
Speaker:much more as a culture that's driven by law. So we so we hold up
Speaker:the book of discipline or or where we wanna use the Bible
Speaker:sometimes even even to put people in their places
Speaker:as opposed to widen as we talked about a few days
Speaker:ago, making the table, adding another leaf to the table. We have one of
Speaker:these tables. We have one at home and we have one at our home where
Speaker:you can pull the table out and put another leaf in and if you
Speaker:have more people at the table. And so I think if
Speaker:we if we have a culture where we can add leaves to the
Speaker:Trimble, where where it is much more Wesleyan
Speaker:grace driven as opposed to larger. I'm not suggesting we should
Speaker:we should be have have no guardrails or no
Speaker:no structure or everybody does what they wanna do whenever they wanna do
Speaker:it. And, but my but I I really would want
Speaker:it to be a church where my grandchildren and my
Speaker:children can say, you know, this is a place that
Speaker:that has room for everybody with all of our differences.
Speaker:I think some people some of those folks Families like my family, there's some
Speaker:difference in the family. Yeah. And there are some folks who might say, okay. That
Speaker:leaf's on the table, but we're gonna argue about what color it is or what
Speaker:shape it is or what you know, if it's gonna be upside down or backwards
Speaker:or whatever. And we spent a lot of time worrying about
Speaker:those type of things rather than be in the church. And, Brett, I think that
Speaker:brings us back to the I sometimes say that if you if you if you
Speaker:lean on the fence too too too heavily, the the fence will break. And I
Speaker:think we lean we're leaning so heavily at this time of year and as
Speaker:United Methodist on on on general conference
Speaker:when when we really need to focus on and
Speaker:and and get back to the understanding of who we are as the church
Speaker:of Jesus Christ in our individual in in our places. Someone said
Speaker:someone's much I think I think I know where this one came from, Bishop. I
Speaker:think this was Julius Dodson who said if you try to build a church, you'll
Speaker:rarely get disciples. You try to build a church.
Speaker:And so if you're and if you focus on general conference, you're gonna rarely get
Speaker:disciples. But he went on to say, but if you make disciples,
Speaker:you'll always get the church. And Wow. That's great. And I
Speaker:and I just think that that that that again, I'm
Speaker:gonna go to general conference, and I was elected as a delegate because
Speaker:some some folks trusted that that that I could do that. And I'm gonna
Speaker:do that with the best with the best of intentions and the and the and
Speaker:the and the best work I know how. But but I'm not gonna
Speaker:but I'm not going to try to to think
Speaker:that that's just gonna solve everything because the the real message and
Speaker:the real the the real work of and witness for Jesus will happen
Speaker:back here. Well, Bishop, I know that
Speaker:there seems to be a real sense of
Speaker:opportunity here at general conference and a little bit
Speaker:of anxiety about, you know,
Speaker:not wanting this opportunity to be lost here, as well.
Speaker:And so having said that, bishop, I'd be interested in what you have to say
Speaker:and certainly, Larry, what you have to say about about the opportunity before
Speaker:us at general conference to do these things we talk about in the local church,
Speaker:but also maybe some things you're encouraged about. So, Larry, why don't we start with
Speaker:you? What do you what's the opportunity before us, and what are what are
Speaker:you encouraged by as we enter into this season of
Speaker:the general conference? I'm
Speaker:gonna I'm gonna pivot away one more time. Pleasure to say that I
Speaker:am encouraged because I see some things, really powerful things that are
Speaker:happening in in Indiana as the as the United
Speaker:Methodist Church. I I'm encouraged the way that that our
Speaker:churches and our pastors and our leaders have gotten behind our Bishop
Speaker:invitation to support, and endow
Speaker:scholarships at Africa University and have raised up well over
Speaker:$345,000 off a $300,000 goal
Speaker:toward toward that end. And I think it's that that's a that's I'm
Speaker:encouraged because because they're they're about,
Speaker:planting trees that will bear with that they'll never see bear fruit,
Speaker:and and and in in those in those figurative terms.
Speaker:And and it's it's gonna it's powerful, powerful witness for what
Speaker:we can do, not just locally, but but
Speaker:globally as as a church. I'm encouraged because
Speaker:I see places like, a new church start in Santa
Speaker:Claus, Indiana where where Noel where a new new
Speaker:church church called Noel was formed out of a group of folks,
Speaker:a group of, 60 people who said, we don't want to disaffiliate.
Speaker:We wanna remain United Methodist. And they broke out of a church that disaffiliated
Speaker:and said, we're gonna create our own United Methodist presence in in
Speaker:Santa Claus, Indiana, of of all places. And and and
Speaker:and they're they're alive, and they're and they're and they're gonna grow. I'm
Speaker:encouraged because I know that we've got a a a Hispanic church start that's
Speaker:that's gonna that's that's emerging from from the grassroots in
Speaker:Jeffersonville and and with with excitement. I'm encouraged
Speaker:because and and this may be one of the best examples of
Speaker:of of, that changing culture and giving yourselves
Speaker:away. We have a church in Milford, Indiana, a former church
Speaker:in Milford that that closed. And we had we had some folks who
Speaker:said, we want we we aren't sure what we wanna do with this, but we've
Speaker:got some money that we wanna the individuals. So we've got some money we
Speaker:wanna put with this. If you'll keep the building around and help us a little
Speaker:bit as a district, we wanna give ourselves away
Speaker:to make a difference for Jesus Christ. And so what they've done is they've
Speaker:created a place called the Milford Meeting House, and it's and it's attracting
Speaker:a a a different group of people who would have never
Speaker:ever come into our church doors in the
Speaker:past, but that they've recreated themselves. They gave themselves
Speaker:away in order to make disciples for Jesus Christ, and they've now
Speaker:opened up a a place. And, Bishop, you went and did dedicated
Speaker:the place. I don't remember the name of the is it Hope House?
Speaker:It may be. It may be. I can't but it's a place for for
Speaker:women, who have just been who have been incarcerated to and they they
Speaker:come out then to be a halfway house into with with
Speaker:direction and hope into back into the into their communities.
Speaker:And and so there are thing we and we have and I don't I'm gonna
Speaker:steal yours, Bishop. I knew you would've used it, but I'm gonna do it anyway.
Speaker:We have 28 new faith communities in 2023
Speaker:that have that have that have sprung up across the state. We have
Speaker:we are moving in a wonderful new direction,
Speaker:and there's all all kinds of reasons to be encouraged.
Speaker:Well, Bishop, there's some encouraging words there about what's happening in the in our
Speaker:local churches and opportunities for new communities of
Speaker:faith. What, what say you about, what are you encouraged
Speaker:by? And can you give a word of thanks to our guest today and maybe
Speaker:close us with a prayer? Absolutely. In 1742,
Speaker:in his, book character of a Methodist, John Wesley said,
Speaker:Methodists are those who have the love of God shed abroad in
Speaker:their hearts by the Holy Ghost. I believe
Speaker:that this is a season to rejoice as the writer,
Speaker:apostle Paul, 1st Thessalonians. Rejoice
Speaker:always. Pray without ceasing. Give thanks
Speaker:in every circumstance, including giving thanks going
Speaker:to general conference for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus
Speaker:for you. 1st Thessalonians 5 16 through 18
Speaker:from the new revised standard version. The psalmist says, I will thank the
Speaker:Lord with all my heart, and I like this,
Speaker:from the common English Trimble from Psalm 9. It said, and I will
Speaker:talk about all your wonderful acts. So
Speaker:we worship God and we have hope, not be just because of what
Speaker:God has done for us or even with us, but
Speaker:because of who God is. So we give thanks that, you know, we
Speaker:worship in a church. We are part of a larger movement, the
Speaker:Christian Christian community. So where a lot of times we talk about the
Speaker:United Methodist Church, I wish we really would think more about what
Speaker:does it mean to be followers of Jesus Christ. And I we
Speaker:happen the 3 of us happen to be United Methodist, but we believe that,
Speaker:Jesus Christ is lord and savior. And the day
Speaker:after general conference, that will still be true, and people will still
Speaker:need God, still need hope, still need physical
Speaker:bread and spiritual bread. So I give thanks. I'm I'm very
Speaker:encouraged, by all of the signs from lay
Speaker:people and clergy, new people, and people like
Speaker:us who've been in the church a long time, about our
Speaker:opportunity to give witness, to the love of Jesus Christ.
Speaker:So God bless us. Let us pray. Lord god, we thank you for the blessing
Speaker:of this day for our guest, reverend Larry Whitehead, for
Speaker:reverend doctor Brad Miller, and for our witness to
Speaker:this podcast. We pray that someone today, someone
Speaker:tonight will know they are loved by God. There's nothing
Speaker:they have to do about it. Nothing they have to do but receive it
Speaker:as true, gospel truth. In the name of Jesus Christ, we
Speaker:give thanks and praise. Amen. Amen. And we
Speaker:do thank you for joining us today on the to be encouraged podcast.
Speaker:Our guest today, the chief of staff and executive assistant to the Bishop, reverend
Speaker:Larry Whitehead. And speaking for bishop Julius C
Speaker:Trimble, I am reverend doctor Brad Mueller. We encourage you
Speaker:to always do all the good that you
Speaker:can.
