Understanding Faith-Based Digital Marketing-Part 1 with Dr. Kelly Price-Rhea
Bishop Julius C. Trimble is the Resident Bishop of the Indiana Area of the United Methodist Church.
Bishop Trimble has the personal mission to encourage all people with the love of Jesus Christ to rise to their highest potential. It is his commitment to his personal mission that led Bishop Trimble to create the “To Be Encouraged” Podcast along with co-host Rev.Dr. Brad MIller.
Bishop Trimble says, “I am compelled by Jesus to share with you an encouraging word or two about Jesus, theology, the Bible, the pandemic, the environment, racism, voting rights, human sexuality, and the state of the United Methodist Church.”
To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble is to be published weekly and is available at www.tobeencouraged.com and all the podcast directories.
Episode 032 features a conversation with Dr. Kelly Price-Rhea, Associate Professor and Master of Digital Marketing Program at East Tennessee State University.
Episode 032 focuses in on telling the good news stories of the United Methodist Church through digital marketing and repositioning the brand of the United Methodist Church. This is part one of a two part episode with Dr. Price.
Part two of this episode (Episode 033) features an in-depth conversation about an article Dr. Price wrote for UM NEWS about "The Metaverse and Methodism" and is available at www.tobeencouraged.com/episodes.033.
The article is available at this link:
Another Resource regarding Digital Marketing in the UMC is the podcast:
"Pastoring in a Digital Parish" by Pastor Ryan Dunn available at this link:
Hello again good people welcome to the to be encouraged podcast with Bishop Julius C treble. This is Bishop trebles podcast where he gives an encouraging word to a discouraged world. I'm your co host, Reverend Dr. Brad Miller. We're pleased and to have a person who can help us speak to a issue that is important to the life of the church. And that is clear and good and crisp communication, particularly in some of the difficult times that we live in. And so, it is our pleasure and privilege to have Dr. Kelly price Ray. With us today. She's the Associate Professor and master of digital marketing and program director at East Tennessee State University. But moreover, she is a lifelong United Methodist. She is a member of the centenary United Methodist Church in Morristown, Tennessee which is part of the Holston annual conference. She's a certified lay minister and served in many levels of the of the church, district and conference United women and faith. She's involved with social media efforts, local church, treasurer, district teams, all kinds of things a local church, Bishop, help us to welcome Kelly price to our podcast today.Speaker:
We're so glad to have you, Dr. Kelly. And we really appreciate your spending this time with us and sharing as a United Methodist in a different part of the country. But we have persons who listen to this podcast across the globe to so we're just glad to hear from you and have a chance to just exchange some thoughts, ideas and reflections. Our mission, as you know, is United Methodist to make disciples of Jesus Christ, for the transformation of the world. And I don't believe we can transform the world unless we're willing to love the world and to exercise justice in the world. As Cornel West says love is justice expressed in the public square. And we just believe that as United Methodists we need to love God is our annual conference thing was this year. Love God and love neighbor. So welcome aboard. Glad to Glad to meet you and to and to maybe hear some of your thoughts and some of your counsel and wisdom that we can share abroad. Well, thank you for that. Good, good. Welcome there, Bishop Kelly. Yeah. When these were allowed to do that it was kind of a foundation of the folks we talked to you're on to be encouraged as a little bit about your faith story. Can you share with us a little bit of maybe how you came to Christ in the first place, and how that coming to Christ led you eventually to what you're doing now, in the world of education as a college professor?Speaker:
Thank you all so much greetings from Holston conference and East Tennessee. So you have to excuse the yalls and theSpeaker:
guys, that are probably not a problem.Speaker:
Right? Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on here today. Yes, I am. As you said a moment ago, I lifelong Methodist. And I've been at the same church, my entire life centenary here. And I got all the way. And I come from a long line of Methodist. My mother, my grandmother, her mother, so a lot of strong women have led me to this point. But yeah, I have to say that my faith story really is one of those. I'm sure you've heard this probably a million times about how somebody would be influenced by their childhood pastor. And my childhood pastor was named Dwight Kenny, Reverend Kenny, he has since passed, but he was at our church for about 20 years. And that was before there was a lot of moving around of the pastor's. But, but yeah, so I got to be with him through my very formative years and all of that, that he taught me and, and nurtured me and all of those things has been with me forever, and remains to this day. And then after that got into the call and the urge to go a little farther with the certified lay minister and, and other various roles that you mentioned. So it started early. And it started with Reverend KennySpeaker:
has an awesome story to share. Thank you for that. And vision this oh, this connection kind of started when you wrote had a video a little while back that really touched touch the heart of Kelly and I want her to respond to it. But it gives us kind of the gist of the matter of the video that you put together her while back they got her attention.Speaker:
Well, let me not so much. I can say a little bit about the video but the video was in response I had a colleague who has suggested I watched the video some video video series from Rob Renfro, who is a leader with the Western covenants. Association and one of those who was helping promote and organize the global Methodist church that was launched in May the first and I watch first I watched the final video that I watched the series of the videos. Since this time was recently Adam Hamilton has done a series responding to all of those videos, which is excellent, by the way, but I saw a lot of what I call were half truths, and really misrepresentation of the best of what it means to be United Methodist. I say this and I've said, Brad, you've heard me say this over the years. I'm unapologetically Christian, unashamedly United Methodist. I grew up in a Methodist Church and my parents were Methodist in Alabama, they were members of the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church. And when they moved to Chicago, they went to the closest Methodist Church, you could walk to six children, so I'm not. I'm before from six children. And so that's how we ended up being Methodist. First, there was Methodist, Episcopal, then the church became United Methodist in 1960. Well, our church in 1969. And so I've been connected with the Methodist Church, all of that time. And my the, my, the video buyer beware really was to just to warn people that were being led many of them being led by, you know, some of their conservative members to feel like that there's something so flawed about the United Methodist Church, that you've got to leave for a more excellent, ortho, quote unquote, Orthodox Church. And, and Pastor Renfro use the reference of consider us the United Artists of United of Methodism. And then went on then went on to give a summary of those who would actually organised United art of the United Artists studio, which included W. DW Griffith. And course, DW Griffin was made a lot of money on him on a film called The Birth of the nation in 1915, which really was where it's really and Kelly, you probably know some of the history if you know some, you're from Tennessee, you should know a little bit about the history of the Klan, and my family's from Alabama and I live in Indiana, which is was really kind of the Northern headquarters of, of the Klan. But But anyway, the point the point being, and I know Rob was a trying to try to necessarily associate the global with the Methodist church with the Klansmen. But the point being when you communicate things, and you put things out there, because several other people apart from me notice that these used this illustration of United Artists, and went on to name the names of the people who started the United Artists film, his I think his point was to say that, that the global Methodist Church was going to be more controlled by the local church, you're going to be able to be a congregational church, and at the same time, a connectional. Church. So let me just stop and say this, we can't be both. I'm a connectional. United Methodist, so I'm not going to tell people as a bishop, you can really be a congregational church, and do what you want to do read the Bible, take it literally. Let your church decide everything, name your own pastor, hire and fire your own bishop, and you beat and you can be global and Methodist at the same time. Those those two can't live on the same SoSpeaker:
Kelly, this this video that bishop tremble did got your attention. What about it got your attention, particularly in the framework of being a communications professor, but what about it got your attention to the root cause you to write him and to get this ball rolling?Speaker:
Well, I stay on top of a lot of communication from the United Methodist Church, and that includes Council of Bishops, social media pages, things like that. So I tend to see a lot of the communications that come from those sources. But of course, being the the marketing professor, the consumer behavior professor and I see something called buyer beware, I thought oh, this is talking my language out there. So I immediately viewed the video and just really enjoyed it and learned a few things from it. And I just thought, you know, and I think I'm just going to email him and just tell him I really appreciate it. And that you know, you're you're speaking the marketing language and and it's it was very true about it. We call in marketing a bait and switch that's happening on that upset but um, but yeah, that's I just I just wanted to reach out to him and say you really made that very relatableSpeaker:
in terms ofSpeaker:
I wish I was back in school now it's in my mind, I got a good gradeSpeaker:
I knew I knew back in school, my friend. You did. Okay, I think you did. Okay, but we didn't have we didn't have any courses on social media communication back in the early 80s. Did we? We barely had computers back then. But anyhow, does stay on track here. Kelly, let's, let's talk for a second, let's reflect for a minute about the situation in the church as a whole. And I just like to get your take on things, you know, obviously something about his video, but buyer beware struck a nerve and you went to heart of the matter of what you are dealing with as a united as an engaged United Methodist, layperson, as a person who's been a part of that particular church, which I find really awesome for your whole life. And so you've seen changes, I'm sure you've seen changes happen that local church and in your environment and in everything else, but what would you kind of take give your assessment of the state of the church and the state of where we're at right now tell us it's particular from your view, as a communications layperson,Speaker:
I feel like we're a little bit in a what we call a crisis management mode that we're doing a little PR fixing, right now, I kind of see this from a course of a marketing in a consumer behavior background, that we are in a at a point, now we have an opportunity to reposition ourselves. And that's what that's a marketing term repositioning. So what that basically means is that we have a chance to just re look at where we are just a little bit, we many brands have gone through this. One of the famous ones is Cadillac. They for years had this perception of this is your grandfather's car, and it's for older people and all that kind of stuff. And they realized this, I thought, This is not who we are. So they reposition themselves. And now, it's a totally different story. And I feel like that the state of the church is still good. It just is in a position to where we can, again, reposition ourselves. The United Methodist Church, as we mentioned, has a wonderful brand story it is that we have a brand promise, and we have a brand identity, all of those things. And I'm confident confident in those. There's as solid as ever. It's just we need to maybe saturate the social media pages and whatever with that, that message. Oh, I thought of this actually, the other day, I was talking to my students about it. We were talking about viral and things that go viral and things like that. And there is an example. I don't know if you all heard of this. So I went back a few years ago is in 2017. There was a it was a student actually, I don't remember where he went to school. But he decided that he wanted to mock conspiracy theories, he thought it'd be interesting to see what he could do with this. And so he put out a campaign and it was called birds aren't real. I don't know if you heard of it. But what he got out there was that birds aren't real, they have all been replaced by drones. And you would not believe the complete viral nature of this. People started believing it, they got t shirts, they got hats all over the place. And so it just it got out there the message got out there. And the same thing is kind of happening now with some of the communications from from other folks. And, and so I'm again, I'm thinking that the state of the church is still strong. It's just we need to reposition and rethink and get that message out there.Speaker:
So we've got a good news message. But we're not doing a good job of getting that good news out there. Is that Is that fair? assessment of what you just shared their care, Kelly?Speaker:
I think so. I think so. There are some opportunities we have, and I'm sure we can talk about those later. Of, of where we could be and what we could do we have it's called in marketing, we call them brand fans, and we have brand fans in the Methodist Church. They committed people and maybe it's going to be a leaner organization. But I'll tell you what, it's we have Brian fans out there. So we just got to get them get them going.Speaker:
Which of what we've talked about branding in the past and and sometimes we know that our brand has taken a beating so things you've been talking about there. But what do you think Bishop and what maybe you could reflect with Kelly minute here about? What are some of those good things that we can lift up for the brand as it were a bishop? Maybe you and Kelly can both consent can jump in here. What are some things we need to lift up to say, Okay, this is cool, this is what we're about?Speaker:
Well, I'm getting ready to have one of the most exciting experiences that I've had and since COVID Next Monday I leave for African University celebrate the 30th anniversary of African University. There's no greater success story in the United Methodism, maybe there but I'm biased on this one. This is certainly in the top 10 Africa University which was started by the United Methodist Church in 1988. Action of the General Conference, an African bishop said we need help in in promoting education and access to higher education. On the continent of Africa. There are over 100 plus United Methodist related colleges and universities in the United States. We have three of them in Indiana. And so when after university got started 1992 here's a here's an exciting, great story that really should be viral. This past June when we were having an annual conference spread in Indiana, African University was graduating 740 students, which made over 10,000 Alumni Now, graduates of Africa University 93% of those graduates are serving on the continent of Africa, and 32 different countries. What if that's not a good news story, and they don't apologize about being United Methodist. They're not hiding or anything like that. They're United Methodist, supported every year by apportionment dollars. And by annual conferences that say, we want to invest in students and do so that's just one example. Africa University. One of the things I would say to Kelly is that part of our challenges that we know this year is building a trustworthy organization or institution so big as the United Methodist Church. It's a challenge, because we're global. So we've had some great campaigns and brands, you know, open doors, open minds, open hearts, but then people challenges and sage, there's got to be truth in advertising. So some people have challenged us on Truth. Right now, there's a good movement going on. Kelly, I know if you follow this, the hashtag bu MC method. But it's not as if it could do like bread birds aren't real, something like we need something like that. Well, actually, there's a group that is it's kind of using that using that attempt saying, you know, some United Methodist don't believe in the resurrection and all kinds of foolishness. And people are buying, buying buying that. But I think we have lots of good stories to tell. We try to do that here at the local level in our annual conference, to tell stories. But my but my children, let me close with this prayer. I'm sorry, my children, my children who are now older, the older millenniums, but by our youngest child, six years ago, when I first came to Indiana, what may have four years ago, he moved to California, he said, I gave him a list of United Methodist churches. He said up dad, I'm not going to any church, I can't go to on my phone first. But I limited half of those churches he's never been to. And he said he's not going to because he couldn't visit them on his phone.Speaker:
No, but but I think the relevance is here in terms of the strategy and the technology has to be killed, has to be taken into account. And social media has to be taken into account in But Kelly, I really would like to ask you kind of a follow up to this here. What do you think are some of the things that we really can't brand on hard? Maybe you know, some things here? And then I'd like to get a little deeper on? How you think we can do that? How can we possibly become more viral in a positive sense, where we know people working kind of against, you know, being divisive, the environment, that way? Good stuff that we're doing? And how can we do it?Speaker:
Yes, we do have a wonderful brandstory. But we do have to reach people where they are. So as you said, Bishop, when your children, they have to that that charge had to be where he was or she was to access that. And, you know, we're seeing that more and more with younger people. I see it all the time, in my own job with for example, online education. I teach fully online, I didn't for you know, I only taught on ground for several years and then went into online. And I have learned over that time that you know, these students could never finish a graduate degree if it had not been online. So they have that access and that type of thing. I guess I can I can do it with this example. I'm old enough to remember messy TV on Thursday nights when I was a kid. And that was in the 80s. In that era, where you sat down on Thursday nights, I believe it was eight o'clock we watched The Cosby Show and you know those there. So everybody sat down at that time and that was it. Otherwise you didn't get to see it. And of course now we have streaming and you know all those things. I just log on to Netflix or wherever it is I watch a show and pause it when I want to. So I'm consuming this product as a consumer when and where I want to. same is happening Being with online or digital church. So we have to be extremely smart and efficient about reaching people with our product of church. And there are opportunities to do that. I mean, we yeah, we definitely have social media, no question about it, then you have to start thinking, Okay, well, which platform do we need to be on? Does everybody need to be on tick tock? No, probably not. So you have to figure out that puzzle. But we also have bigger things. And this is the the topic that I mentioned in the piece I did for you. And news was about metaverse. I don't know if you want to get into that or talk about it. But my experience there.Speaker:
Please do go for it. Oh, okay.Speaker:
Sure. Absolutely. Metaverse is so exciting. I'm getting ready to start teaching a class about it here in a couple of weeks. But okay, so anybody who needs a refresher of what Metaverse is, it's basically a digital world. And you build your avatar and you and you go there and there are different metal viruses. SoSpeaker:
we know a lot about the movie things, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah, metal world, that kind of stuff. But please go. Please go with you. I don't want to interrupt you too much. But I've seen the context. People do know, things like that. I know.Speaker:
Yeah. And so there are different Metaverse is out there. Facebook has their own version. Horizon. Microsoft has their own version. There's one called Roblox, anybody who's, I don't know 12 years old and younger knows exactly what that is. And so there are different meta verses and big brands are already in there. For example, Nike is on Roblox. Walmart just got into Roblox. You have other big brands, Disney has their own metal, our strategist. So so all these brands are already there. And church is there as well. And recently, I got the opportunity. I was just interested, and wanted to see what church in the metaverse looked like. So I did and tended something called VR church. And you may have heard of that one. It's the one that's probably gotten the most press, and they are on Microsoft's metaverse. And so what I did was I built an avatar and I went in and I attended the church service. And it was it was extremely interesting, and it was engaging. And it was connected. It was fascinating, actually. So I probably attended the service that had, let's say, 50 people or so or avatars, I should say, are there. I watched a sermon. And it was fascinating because what this church does is they take whatever the topic is, or the Scripture is, and then build it, they were visual, what we do is all the participants just walk along and we're walking along looking at buildings and, and visual of Jesus doing whatever that what's happening in the scripture, and it came to life. And people were connected and talking and, and of course it was our own voices. So you could hear other people. But I just found it extremely interesting. And I thought, you know, I really wish the Methodist church as a whole was here. It's a digital mission field, I believe. And I think that's an opportunity that that is definitely worth looking at.Speaker:
And reminds me, Kelly and bishop to the help so many times it seems like the church and I just speak in our little tribe or United Methodist Church seems to be not only one or two steps behind but many steps behind culture and things like that I and I come to you Kelly from a background as I'm a former church planter. And so I come from that viewpoint that worldview. So for instance, I had wanted to back in 30 years ago, when I planted a church, I had one of the first Christian rock bands in our denomination and ours, at least in our city. And that was traumatic for a lot of people. And I had one of the first video projectors at any church, I met church in a movie theater. And you thought you know, it was held up a year literally some people thought that that's 30 years ago when I was church planning. But I think we're kind of the same deal here where sometimes we're so we're be we're behind. And here's what I'd like for you to give us some insight on this ambition may be using the same thing out there. But how can churches catch up a little bit or at least getting the universe as aware of the ballpark of Healthy People? What are some practical steps Kelly that a local church pastor or a local church communications team, or industry lay person can do to help do a couple things here?Speaker:
Well, I guess I will also give a shout out to a United Methodist podcast that directly addresses this is called pastoring in the digital Paris with Ryan Dunn, and they they address a lot of the digital with big churches, little churches. They talk about all the different platforms and just things that pastors can do on a local level. And because we know that Not everybody has a 10 person marketing communications team that they can call on to do that. So that is definitely a resource that I would say to go for. Otherwise, you just sort of have to take into account again of what you can do on a local level. At my own church, we just happen to have and I happen to be married to an IT guy. And so we had, we were able to put in a super nice camera, and he runs the sound. And that's all we need. And I do some Facebook, because that's, that is what our congregation wants, and to get ourselves out there. But other you know, other places may do other things. One thing I will also add to that, the the importance of the pastor themselves, that, and I have found this in online education, that my presence, we call it Professor presence, my presence in the online environment, however, that may be if they hear my, my voice through an audio, a quick video where they meet me at the beginning of the class, I think I put one up, it's maybe 90 seconds, gives the personality and the tone of the course. And pastors can do the same thing, because every one of you all are different, right? And so I believe that that knowing you on a personal level, maybe give a little What do you do as a hobby, you know, my students know that I golf, they immediately know that from video or my audio and, and I go from there, so don't be afraid to to show who you are personallySpeaker:
have a little personality, I have a little part that seems to me, that's a huge part of what social media is about. It's not just the content, it is the context or the you know, the the character part of the content as well as important, it seems to me the short form videos and other things like vertical video and all kinds of things, a lot of that is involved with that. Bishop as we kind of wind this conversation around here, the next few minutes, what kinds of things are on your heart and mind about that you'd really like to learn from kelia to today.Speaker:
I'm learning I'm soaking it up, like a kid in a candy store. So well, one of the things I've been really hanging on is that in this critical time, some I don't know who originally said this, but maybe if Scott said no crisis, no good crisis should be wasted. So some people are kind of viewing this period of time as as a time of scarcity and fear, because the church is changing churches disaffiliation. But I think I've said this, and I'll keep saying it if the if COVID couldn't kill the church, that nothing could. And we know that the church can't be defeated, because God says in His Word, you know, the gates of hell shall not prevail against my church. So we know the church is going to continue to exist. But how do we want to borrowing from Kelly, this is a season and an opportunity to reposition ourselves. Yes, free position. So so so to log on with Ryan Dunn, and with Kelly and to and to be engaged in the metaverse and to remember that some every every everything that is digital is not a blessing. And everything online is not you know, we know that this studies have been done to about the increase in and in terms of self perception and contribution, contribution to suicide, ideation and all kinds of things that can be negative effects of but but the gospel, good news should be able to be accessible to everyone. I think this is a period where people can get excited about pursuing a meaningful goal. So no matter what size your church is, the church is what we found is churches that have a mission focus, something that they're pursuing a meaningful goal. Those churches, as we talked earlier today, Brett, who are engaged in children matter most. They are there. They're excited about this. And I think they will be some of those churches that are going to be more more likely going to embrace the online more an online and digital presence.Speaker:
We're not going back. Are we a bishop? We can't go No. I mean, I've beenSpeaker:
going to churches, and the people are not coming back, like they did before. So we've got to figure out a waySpeaker:
it's like one of the churches heard long time ago, bishop had just little tiny, tiny parking lot, which is gravel, and I said, Okay, what's the deal? Yours? Oh, that's literally this is literally what was said, Oh, that was for the horse and buggies. And that was 100 years ago. So not enough room for the cars. People drive cars for a long time. So just use it as an example. But Kelly getting back around to you is what I say we're not going back. We talked to well, well about a while back about his book, but don't look back. You just can't go backwards. We're going forwards. So what is it that you see Kelly? That is encouraging or energizes you get you fired up about what is possible moving forward? Let's not focus so much and all the negative nonsense that's going on out there and some of that kind of thing. What is fired you what is an encouraging word for you moving forward?Speaker:
This is that's actually a very timely question because I had the chance, very recently to talk with our bishop, the bishop, Deborah was Padgett. And she was making her rounds to the to the district, she's going around to the different districts visiting and talking with people. And I'm on a committee where we got to meet with her. And there were about, I don't know, 10 of us in the room or so. And I got to talk to her one on one afterward. What struck me and made me so encouraged was, I've seen her many times and the other bishops as well included, including you bet on video or words of encouragement over email and things like that. What I was struck by was when I was physically with her in the room of her, her wit, of course, but her willingness to listen and her steadiness and her honesty. And her. I was very helpful because she was so open to digital endeavors, talked about Metaverse a little bit. And when I noticed when when we were all talking, there were several clergy in the room. And they were they, they even said, you know, we're tired. We are weary. But what she offered them was just such encouragement, saying I hear you here is a sincere shoulder to lean on. We are going to give you encouragement, what do you need? And of course, I'm sitting there with all the clergy in the bishop in the room. And I'm thinking to myself, y'all can't go down because, you know, I realized oh, immensely every day for things. I don't know if they realized that. And of course, our DS was in the room and I'm encouraged, encouraged by her leadership as well. So that really, yes, Metaverse fires me up. I think it's absolutely where we need to be. I'm not afraid of a leaner organization. I get fired up. Sometimes when I see these attacks on seminary professors. I think that's just you know, coming from professors, you know, we teach them how to think not what to think. But what I'm seeing is such encouragement from Bishop Trimble from my other bishops our leadership is strong, and they are sincere and very down to earth. So I'm encouraged by by the leadership right nowSpeaker:
before we get Bishop treble the last word, Kelly price is a professor at East Tennessee State University. How can people learn more about you be connected with you if they want to understand your expertise? Or how can people be in connection with you?Speaker:
Oh, sure. It's just a if you just want to Google Kelly price ETSU. It'll bring up the digital marketing page. And under the faculty and staff, it has my email there. So easy fund.Speaker:
Can you say another word about theSpeaker:
article for the the article that you mentioned earlier?Speaker:
Yeah. For you in news. That was a fun piece to write. But I basically it's on their page. If you just Google my name and Metaverse and you have news, you'll find it. But it was a commentary. And I've heard a lot of feedback from that. I was lucky enough to speak to the World Association of Christian communicators the other day about it. Their executive board is has several Methodists on it. So we got to talk about Metaverse a little bit but just a little bit of a push like like Bishop whilst pageant said to me the other day she said keep pushing us on this now I need you to keep pushing this thing. I said you got it.Speaker:
We're gonna we're gonna we're going to learn more about Metaverse ourselves here I know something I'm very interested in training you to buy and we will put connections to everything you're about Dr. Kelly price Ray on our website to be encouraged.com and we will see where we can go from that. Bishop. We always like to give you the last word on your podcast here to be encouraged. What's in Currys you today about our conversation with Kelly price Ray?Speaker:
Where this has been really a fun conversation and I hope we'll have a year more from Kelly. I like to call you Dr. Kelly That sounds nice ring to it. Dr. Kelly, that I have her. The tab I'm always inspired when I meet up when I meet other United Methodist whether it's in another state or another country, because we all have our own particular stories. I want to close with a word from the New Testament. And it reminded me of our limitations are self imposed. Your God has already you know as as one of our colleagues, Frank Beard who came from Indiana was a bishop now said we know the end of the movie The story God wins himself. So and Jesus has already died on The cross so he didn't ask us to do that. So the heavy lifting has been done. So, I love this, this passage from Ephesians, the third chapter now to him, by the power at work within us, who is able to accomplish abundantly far more than we can ask or imagine, to him to to be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus, to all generations forever and ever, we need to be reminded, we need not as i According Kelly, we need that be fearful of change. Because God is able to do far more than we can imagine. And I'm a big fan of your bishop as well, Bishop Deborah Wallace Padgett and people want to know that you care bread before they care how much you know. And so one of the things we can do and it doesn't take an act of Congress is to consistently share with people that we really care and we come from a Community of Christ followers where we do care. God bless you.